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Andrew Livsey's avatar

It's delightful to have two such eminent scholars debating so articulately and politely.

I don't however entirely agree with Peter Dombrowski's argument which is, if I have it right, essentially that European navies should focus on the Russian threat to the exclusion of deployments to the Indo-Pacific. There is of course much he says that is unarguable, including the threat from Russia and that European navies have atrophied in recent years. Yet I am not sure that his conclusion follows from those premises.

What is being discussed are intermittent deployments to the Indo-Pacific of mostly a relatively small proportion of European navies. Their temporary absence from Mediterranean or North Atlantic waters generally makes only a transitory difference to the balance of power there, and of course the geopolitical situation is considered just before they depart and they can always be called back. Maritime power is far more flexible than significant land power or land based air power.

Meanwhile, intermittent European deployments to the Indo Pacific bring many advantages, which we can list under Corbett's military, economic and diplomatic triad.

Militarily, if the US ends up in a war with China it may well be grateful for European military support, for the European navies have not just excellent general capabilities (by some measures the best air defence ship in the world is a British type 45 destroyer) but also some general abilities that the US lacks either partly or entirely, including minehunting and diesel electric submarines. Geographically, the Europeans also helpfully approach from a different direction, which could be useful in the Indian Ocean and in imposing economic warfare on China. It is also the case that countries such as the UK, with its close ties to Australia, New Zealand, Brunei and elsewhere, have military interests in the Indo-Pacific which are distinct from those of the US. Moreover, the great advantage of maritime power is its flexibiliy and the ability to impose costs in different theatres. Who knows when it may be in the interests of European navies to deliver military action beyond the Euro-Atlantic? Conversely, putting the USA out of the picture for a moment, if countries such as Japan and South Korean think that the Europeans might help them, then perhaps they might be more prepared to help the Europeans. That is before we start to discuss relations with India (a democracy of 1.4 billion people) and many other valued states.

Economically, South and East Asia's economic heft has been mentioned, and warship visits are good for military sales and much more.

Diplomatically, the task group deployment such as that being currently led by the UK's HMS Prince of Wales helps to bind European allies together, and the vital and long standing links that the UK and other European powers have with countries in the Indo Pacific. It also supports and prepares for the military effects mentioned above. Shifting to look at the situation from the Chinese point of view, Europanm deployments complicate their decidions, giving more coutnries to consider as China decides whether to go to war, and if so how. There is a parallel here with the UK and France becoming nuclear armed states in the Cold War. Initially the USA prefered that the Europeans didn't have nuclear weapons because it complicated their face off with the Soviet Union, but eventually the Americans realised that such European military capabilities complicated the Soviet calculations and imposed additional restraints.

Finally, far from imposting financial costs, the reality is that to have warships ready to go when the time comes you have to use them in the meantime. Moreover, such deployments can be good for personnel retention.

In sum, therefore, the USA's shift to the Pacific as seen under the last four Presidents, and its more erratic decision making as seen more recently, actually make European naval deployments to the Indo-Pacific more important than before.

Andrew Livsey

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PierreA's avatar

Most interesting that a discussion about whether European countries should have naval activity in the Pacific, should turn out to be a discussion between a Brit and a Yank about British naval activity in the Pacific and division of labour between the UK and the US.

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For one, is the UK a European power, seriously? Seen rrom the US, yes. Seen from Europe, hardly. Seen from the UK... unclear.

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Of course, the most interesting part about the original proposition is that it comes when the Trump administration is set to redefine AUKUS-pocus, as to erase the original idea of tripartite security involvement in the Pacific, and to replace it with a "spheres of influence" approach whereby the US would focus on the Pacific and Europeans, including the UK, would be expected to focus on Europe and to quit believing they may have reasons to look to the rest of the world.

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So, as a real European, albeit a particular breed, I'm sorry that I have to bring you both back into the real world.

France is a Pacific nation. Meaning there are bits of France in the Pacific. And there are bits of France in the Indian Ocean as well. And despite the present limitations to its naval power, France intends to keep exercising sovereignty over its Pacific territories and it's massive national waters and EEZ.

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So, in the French case, there's no question of whether there will be continued naval activity in the Pacific, but only a question of how much and to what effect.

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The AUKUS-pocus trick, the way it was carried out, and the present US attitude to Europe and France, all point to the fact that there can be no reliance on the US, and probably not even trust about the US respecting undefended sovereignty. You should therefore expect France to keep pursuing its own strategic policy in the Indo-Pacific. And even to try and convince Australia to once again be part of a collective regional project with France, Indonesia or India, rather than to keep believing in the AUKUS fantasy. In this, US policies may prove to be of great help, as they are bound to keep pushing Australian security interest ever farther to the background, in favour of US-only interest in using Australia as a forward base and a reserve of resources.

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It is even possible that US unilateralism and lack of consideration for its allies' interests will ultimately push Asian partners to join forces with France and other European powers, as to participate together in some form of continuation of the international order such as envisioned by China, Russia and a few others, notably Gulf monarchies.

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This will not be a time of redefining the workings of a US-Europe partnership on the global scale. This will be the time of US self-exclusion, first, and then exclusion by others, from the international order. If the US seeks to push Europe out of the Pacific, then the US will add some more conflict to its worries in that particular region.

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